What’s the point if we have no control?
Determinism doesn’t give a squat about the meaning of something. It simply acknowledges that the motion of events\actions are due to a perpetual cause and effect relationship.
Those who think there is free-will on the other hand, they claim they have control and choices, that they are free from causality, and have control to work towards some seemingly meaningful purpose. It seems more meaningful to the individual specifically when they think they have control. So among other motives, I think that people are attached to the illusion of free-will because they are also attached to wanting to be able to create their own meaning, or have control of finding some sort of meaning or purpose to their lives.
I hear so often, those that believe they have free will, when faced with the deterministic viewpoint, they often respond, “what would be the point of that?” or “what’s the point if I don’t have control” So you see, ones search and drive towards meaning and purpose, is a primary motivation for people to want to believe they have free will. This is one of the many reasons why I am skeptical to believe that we have free will, people have ulterior motives to want to believe they have free will.
11. July 2008 um 12:15
Control and free will are not the same thing. A thermostat controls the temperature of a room.
A rational human brain processes information and controls the actions of the individual.
http://upgrade01a.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/the-free-will-machine/
http://upgrade01a.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/patterns-design-and-physical-laws/
Determinism is not necessarily mutually exclusive to “free will” - it depends upon what you mean be free will.
Consider a boat: a boat can be made up of wooden planks. Wood is made up of carbon and other atoms. Atoms are made up of quarks and electrons. None of these parts and sub components are boats but it does not follow that boats cannot exist. A boat is a pattern that is independent of the atoms from which it is made. Planks can be replaced, and you still have a boat. The quarks and the atoms do not determine how the boat will function. The design pattern will determine its behavior.
As the wood gets old and starts to rot, they are replaced by newer planks, made up of entirely different atoms. New composite, artificial components, not made out of wood can substitute - not even the same kinds of atoms - no tree cells - nothing the same but the shape and size - a plank pattern is all that is required.
If we look at “free will” as a kind of pattern, then we can see that, although ultimately the rational agent is ruled by the laws of the universe and is made up of quarks, it is the patterns within the agent that are important. Consider your favorite piece of music. If you are in the “mood” for music (a pattern), then you could start playing that music *now*, or in ten seconds from now and it will have the same high-level effect on your brain - yet all of the atoms in your brain have moved by then, as have the air molecules in the room where the music (sound waves) are propagating. The music patterns are what matter - not the atom. In fact, the air in your room could be entirely helium atoms instead of the normal composition of oxygen and nitrogen and so forth (if you wear an oxygen mask so that you can breath).
The temperature of the air could vary, yet you would still enjoy and appreciate the music.
The machine playing the music could be replaced.
Many molecules in your body and brain could be moved or replaced (this occurs naturally) … entirely new cells can replace dying cells.
We can vary time, space, atoms, quarks, temperature - virtually everything but the essential musical patterns and you as a rational agent pattern and you will still enjoy the music.
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11. July 2008 um 12:34
Consider numbers, words, geometric shapes,memes…. all abstract patterns. The conceptual constructs are ultimately stored in human brains or on computer storage devices, but they are abstract and not made out of any atoms.
We can say that causal determinism ultimately led to the existence of these patterns, but the patterns now are independent of any physical substrate.
A circle is not made out of atoms - it is made purely out of mathematics and logic.
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Consider a circle of dominoes. Suppose under each domino is a small motor which pushes the domino back up after it falls and pushes it back into place, such that the dominoes continuously push the one in front of it down and they do this forever.
In this case, it does not matter which domino is pushed over first. The nth domino causes the n+1 domino to fall, and it is pushed down by the n-1th domino.
An observer entering the domino room would not be able to tell the initial condition. The domino circle has achieved a degree of freedom from its first cause.
A human brain is at least a trillion times more complex than the circle of dominoes. It has many loops (strange loops) with feedback and feed-forward systems. Although, ultimately causally determined, it now quite literally has a mind of its own.
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11. August 2008 um 09:03
I always liked the arguments of free-will. Because I think people who believe in free-will, one being myself, believes in it as an alternative to religion. For those who find church to cult-like or just a repetitious sermon to everyday common sense. It allows us all to be believe we can actually be masters of our own destinies. Nothing is scaring than thinking that everything we’ve done is all been set up like a row of dominoes.
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